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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:35 pm
  

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And, on this same topic:

Quote:
SciFi Writer David Gerrold Reacts to Olson's "I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script"
The Village Voice Blogs
Friday, Sep. 11 2009 @ 1:03PM

​Among the hundreds of comments we've received in reaction to Josh Olson's acerbic rant, "I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script," was this gem by longtime science fiction writer David Gerrold. For those of you who don't obsess about Star Trek, it was Gerrold who penned the "Trouble with Tribbles" episode of the original series. A Hugo and Nebula award winner, Gerrold has written dozens of novels. And here's his take on Olson's piece:


Josh is being way too polite. The only proper response when an amateur attempts to hand you his manuscript, his screenplay, his unpublished novel, his short story, his treatment, his outline, his notes, is to take an axe to his laptop, follow him home, burn down his house, and salt the ground.

Not too long ago, a writer of my acquaintance (a person of some fame in the industry) was hired to work on a major franchise. After several months of development, the project was making genuine progress and looked good. Then one day, out of the blue, an amateur from West Elbow, Nevada, sends him an email containing her outline for a spinoff of that franchise, asking him to help her sell it because "she has the story, but he has the access to the people who will produce it."

My friend backed away in horror, but the damage was done...

He had received this woman's email. Even the act of telling her, "No, I can't help you," was an acknowledgment of receipt. Therefore she could prove that he'd had access to her material -- and it didn't matter that he'd already done six months on the project -- her email had created a situation where she (and an unscrupulous lawyer) could claim that he had ripped off elements in her material.

The studio's lawyers were not happy and my friend almost got booted off the project, until he informed the amateur that he intended to sue her for compromising his ability to earn a living. She signed and notarized a waiver and he got to keep his job.

After that, he changed his email and now has an assistant screen everything and reply with a, "Mr. Twain does not live here anymore and if you send anymore unsolicited material, we will forward your email address to the Dept of Homeland Security for attempting to terrorize an American author."

Reading someone's manuscript is a great way to get sued by an idiot and an unscrupulous lawyer.

Real writers write, they understand enough about writing to know that writing time is so precious that you NEVER impose on someone else's working time.

On the other hand, if you're really serious about getting the opinion of a professional author, I bill at $500 an hour....

David Gerrold

Fair Use Notice: This material is made available, free of charge and without profit, for research and educational purposes, public review, and debate as provided for in Section 107 of the United States Copyright Law.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:28 pm
  


Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:41 pm
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I remember reading that the original title of 'The Trouble With Tribbles' was: 'A Fuzzy Thing Happened.'

Anyone that comes up with a title so unbelievably awesome deserves to be listened to.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:35 pm
  

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Location: Pontotoc, MS
Personally, I laughed like hell at Olson's blog.

Is his blog really any different than asking someone "Does my ass look fat in these jeans?". And them saying "Fuck yeah it does".

He wrestled in his own mind with the truthful answer and GAVE IT.

If ya really don't want to know, don't ask.

_________________
"When life is too good, we think too highly of ourselves and our blessings. Then we decide we are the wisest and the favored ones, and we don't think we need Wakan-Tanka and the Helpers anymore."

--Fools Crow, LAKOTA


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:40 pm
  

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Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:03 pm
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I think you look just fine in your jeans.

LYMI,

LB


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:56 pm
  

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Location: Oklahoma, Where I'm Rotting Away
Yeah, I definitely get what you guys are saying. The dude did make a douche move by asking Olson to read his stuff, but the whole thing seemed to be more about Olson being angry at himself for being passive-aggressive and unable to politely say no.

I've been around this site for a few years, off and on, which is probably the virtual equivalent to Olson's relationship with this guy, and I once asked Larry to check something out that pertained to a script he had read and provided feedback for during one of the contests. Larry's answer was basically: "yeah, if you pay me," and I didn't walk away thinking that Larry was a dick. Entirely different circumstances, including that Larry actually caters to new writers and that our relationship is based on a paid service, but the same basic principles are involved.

Seems a "sorry, dude, no dice" would have been easier than a "fuck off or I shall taunt you a second time" to aspiring writers.

But then again, what the fuck do I know? (the answer to which is absolutely nothing, if you were wondering 8) )


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:19 am
  

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And now, the Silicon Valley view of this kind of issue. Fascinating. I mean it:

Quote:
Lets Not Let Silicon Valley Become Just Like Hollywood
from TechCrunch by Michael Arrington

I came across a post written earlier this week by A History of Violence screenwriter Josh Olson titled I Will Not Read Your Fucking Script. It’s worth a read because it is funny as hell. But I also can’t help thinking about how it all applies to our Silicon Valley community. Are we any different than Hollywood? Should we be?

Olson writes:

I will not read your fucking script…If that seems unfair, I’ll make you a deal. In return for you not asking me to read your fucking script, I will not ask you to wash my fucking car, or take my fucking picture, or represent me in fucking court, or take out my fucking gall bladder, or whatever the fuck it is that you do for a living…Yes. That’s right. I called you a dick. Because you created this situation. You put me in this spot where my only option is to acquiesce to your demands or be the bad guy. That, my friend, is the very definition of a dick move.

He goes on, giving a specific example of one time that he read someone’s script and how it all turned out badly anyway.

And, he’s right. Dead on right. Asking a writer to read your script is no different than asking a painter to paint your house for free. Except for one crucial thing – The person isn’t really asking Olson to read his script. What he was really asking for is access to the Hollywood power structure. A way in to a very closed off world.

There are direct analogies to Silicon Valley. In Hollywood everyone has a script. In Silicon Valley, everyone has a business plan. And when you don’t know many people here, you start networking to get people to read that business plan, and hopefully introduce you to a few venture capitalists or angel investors.

Sometimes those people start with me in their quest to break into Silicon Valley. They are way too early to have a story written about them, but they email in and ask me to look at their business plan and/or an early website and give them my feedback.

What they really want are introductions. To possible cofounders. Or investors. Sure, they listen to my opinion, but when they really have the fire in their eye, which all good entrepreneurs have, it doesn’t matter what I say. Nothing will stop them. They just want me to introduce them to the next person who can help them.

Usually I can’t take the time to look at these business plans, there is always too much to do in my day job. Sometimes, very rarely, I do. But, like Olson with his scripts, the result is the same whether I spend the time or not. If I don’t look at it I get called a jerk. If I do look at it but don’t help move the idea forward with the right introductions, I get called a jerk. It’s easiest just to ignore the requests.

We also see this with TechCrunch50 applications. Every year we get about 1,000 applications from bright eyed, hopeful entrepreneurs. Fifty get in. That’s 950 rejection emails we have to send out. Every year, a certain percentage of the rejected entrepreneurs go varying degrees of ballistic on us. Angry emails, trolling comments, etc. Very occasionally, worse.

But some of this is understandable frustration. As Silicon Valley gets bigger, with more strangers, it actually becomes harder to reach the power structure that can make your startup go from a business plan to reality (this is why I’ve written that periodic downturns, which weed out some of the fluffier parts of the startup scene, are such a good thing in our community).

Those of us in a position to help entrepreneurs need to do more of it. We need to take more time out of our day to read that business plan, and help make connections. Even when it comes at the cost of our day job, and even when there is nothing in it for us. In the past we’ve tried various projects to try to scale this. In the future, we’ll try new things until we get it right. One idea – a once-a-month open demo day at techcrunch where unknown startups can come and show their stuff, or just talk about their idea, to TechCrunch writers. It would be trivial to livestream and archive these events. And who knows, someone may make a crucial connection.

But this is a two way street. Budding entrepreneurs, trying to break down the walls that separate them from your angel funding, need to grow up. Most of the time people don’t have the time to help you, and you shouldn’t aim hate at them for it. Instead, try a different angle or a different person. A simple thing – learn to read body language and don’t approach people at the wrong time (like right after they leave a stage and are surrounded by a dozen other people). Choose your moment. If your strategies don’t work, try something new.

Dozens of startups have given up trying to get through my hated inbox and have instead reached out to other TechCrunch writers, and many of those have ended up with great connections to angel investors, potential partners, or future employees.

But don’t assume someone is a jerk just because they won’t paint your house for free. Or read your business plan.

Good luck, and remember that a lot of people want you to win, even when they don’t have the time to help you do it.


p.s. – I often find myself on the other side of this type of thing, trying to get someone’s attention for a story or to speak at one of our events or whatever. I try to never take offense at an unreturned phone call or email, or blame the person if they don’t have time to speak at one of our conferences. Instead, I try to think of ways to reverse the situation, so in the future it’s them calling me to write about their company, or to speak at our conference. It doesn’t always work, but it’s more productive than festering and spreading hate.

The two places where I've put things in bold really speak to me. I'll repeat them here:

Quote:
And, he’s right. Dead on right. Asking a writer to read your script is no different than asking a painter to paint your house for free. Except for one crucial thing – The person isn’t really asking Olson to read his script. What he was really asking for is access to the Hollywood power structure. A way in to a very closed off world...

But don’t assume someone is a jerk just because they won’t paint your house for free. Or read your business plan...

Good luck, and remember that a lot of people want you to win, even when they don’t have the time to help you do it.


Absolutely, I think you need to remember all this.

LYMI,

LB


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:46 am
  

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Speaking of things the way they SHOULD be:
http://hollywoodroaster.wordpress.com/2 ... ng-script/

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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:29 am
  

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Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 7:51 pm
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Hey, I got a script about dogs ruling the earth. Sort of.

At first the tone of this article seemed (or threatened to be) annoying, but it's ultimately about non-writers who think they can make a fast buck (like it's a lottery) by pestering professionals who actually care about structure and language and character -- only to ignore their advice anyway.

Every discussion of screenwriting seems to end up here.

I once attended a reading/book signing in NY. Movie guy. Some woman cut me out of the line to pester the guy about how to approach an agent, and the *instant* he was done giving her the answer, she went, "Yeah, well..." and went on to assert that she was going to go right on doing the thing that already wasn't working for her. Because the agents should do things her way, don't you think? She wanted validation, and maybe to "triumph" over an authority of some kind. What she didn't want was a solution.

In the final analysis, what writer needs an opinion of a two-page synopsis? If you're a real writer you rewrite it over and over again until YOU know it scans.

So Olson got suckered into the trap, and this article is his justifiably angry backlash. Some will misread what he's saying. Real writers won't take it personally. They'll also ignore the admonitions in it. Because he's not lashing out at real writers. But then the unreal writers will ignore it, too, because you have to believe in yourself and ignore all negativity and put the blinders on until your dream comes true... and we're right back where we started.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:33 pm
  

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Brody wrote:
"Hey, you don't have a script about dogs ruling the earth, do you? My boss is looking for one."


I don't have one at hand, but I'll see if I can em-bark on the doggone thing as soon as I fetch some inspiration.

I don't really have a problem with Josh's attitude, or even the Gerrod's attitude when he writes: "Josh is being way too polite. The only proper response when an amateur attempts to hand you his manuscript, his screenplay, his unpublished novel, his short story, his treatment, his outline, his notes, is to take an axe to his laptop, follow him home, burn down his house, and salt the ground."

I am a small time wannabee, but everytime I have a little success in a contest I get emails from other writers who want my opinion on their writing. I also get stuff from acquaintances who want to be things like story board artists, or musical score composers, or anything even remotely related to the film business, like I can get "in" the Hollywood door.

I can imagine magnifying that to the power of 6 or 7 (as in figures for a script sale), with everyone wanting a piece of your "in". I can imagine that "polite" just doesn't work after awhile, as every "How to" screenplay book ever written advises the legions of the unproduced to be persistent, to keep at it, to never give up the dream, excederin, excederin. In my mind's eye I can see thousands of zombie writers, scripts in hand, drooling as they close in on the soft, juicy, creative brain of a successful screenwriter, the brain they hope will keep their dream alive.

Having written that I've scared myself, I'll be damned if I ever do it again.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:57 pm
  

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Back in the early '80s I was living in Ray Manzarak's old house on Wonderland Avenue (the one the book was written about). It was my second bout of life there, between marriages. (The first bout as when my first wife and I originally came to L.A. No, she didn't live there, just me. Don't ask.)

Anyway, in my '80s period there, one day the phone rang and when I answered it was someone who knew my cousin. Yes, this someone was a writer, and my cousin had given him my number because he was on his way to L.A., and he wanted to meet with me and show me his work. I politely declined, saying I was busy and never did that kind of thing anyway. This was after POLICE STORY and right before THE FALL GUY and I had no jobs to give out.

He thanked me and hung up. Ten minutes later he called again. To make a very long story as short as possible, he called every ten minutes for the next three hours, with the answer machine intercepting him every time. Finally, since I was trying to get something done while I was at home (actually, what I was trying to get done was a pretty sexy brunette whose name may be familiar to some of you, but that's as far as I'm going on that score) finally I answered and told him what an asshole he was and to fuck off. His response:

"But everyone told me to be persistent. Not to take no for an answer. They said that's the only way to get anywhere here."

"Not with me, shithead!"

I hung up. Ten minutes later the phone rang again. I waited, then made one last call, telling my cousin what I was going to do to him the next time I saw him, and that I'd definitely make sure that next time occurred. Then I left the phone off the hook for two days.

The persistent shithead never called again.

I'm still waiting for the day I run into that cousin.

LYMI,

LB


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:39 pm
  


Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:22 pm
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So did you read the Brunette's script?

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It's always going to be shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:26 am
  

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Anil wrote:
So did you read the Brunette's script?

Sad to say, yes.

LYMI,

LB


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:38 pm
  


Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:13 pm
Posts: 29
Location: North Hollywood, CA
The only two Pro reads I ever got were from a creator/showrunner and one half of a blockbuster feature team. Both came about because of my harping about how much I loved their work, and both OFFERED to take a look at my scripts.

The movie guy LOVED my writing and sent it to his big-three agent (to no avail). TV person very kindly handed my ass to me and, as I had promised, I made no further contact, but I was PROFOUNDLY grateful for both reads (and told them so).

I knew as sure as sunrise I needed to work harder at my craft and both reviews made me tighten my skills, if for no ther reason than to not embarrass myself in future reads (oh, and get work).

I will never understand the blind ego that many young newbie writers have, but I think it might be indicative of the societal ill of overindulgence. Just because one writes doesn't mean one can write. I've seen the graduate-college-to-instant-CEO attidute firsthand and it's the reason pros of any sort are skittish with their knowledge and access. They humor these dilettantes and get trashed for their efforts.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:54 pm
  

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Most of the time, egomania, like many things, stems from the opposite of what you would think. It comes from the fear that you aren't any good. Not the other way round.

Larry is of course an exception to this rule.

Dan D.

_________________
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said the ant upon his hill
before he was squashed.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Josh Olson Won't Read Your Fucking Script
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:51 pm
  

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Location: Phil Paxton, Fishers (Indianapolis), Indiana
carter_andrewj wrote:
Great article. That Picasso anecdote is going straight into my mental filing cabinet for future use - even if it turns out to be apocryphal.

There's a similar story in engineering: A system crashes and a repairman is dispatched. There are thousands of dials, buttons, meters, etc. He walks up to one button, pushes it, and the machine begins working again. He submits a bill for $10'000. The foreman looks at it and says, "$10'000? You only pushed one button." "Yes, but I knew which button to push."

phil

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Joker "The Dark Knight"


Last edited by 27182818 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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